matt's debates
because matt's debating is not a crime
They gone done it
Well well.. they did it. I’m certainly not surprised, in fact, why they didn’t do it sooner is beyond me. It’s been on the cards for so long now, that it was, frankly, inevitable.
To even try and explain just how fucking wrong it is would be a complete waste of my time. Everyone knows it’s a huge infringement of people’s civil liberties, but heck, who gives a toss, let’s do it anyway.
In fact, why stop there? They’ve banned smoking on the grounds that it’s a health risk for people working in pubs and clubs and so on. I cycle to work most days, and cycle through traffic jams whilst sucking in all the poison spewing out of the exhausts of the SUVs that mummy is using to take little Johnny to school and the Mercedes’ with the fat executives listening to Radio 4. I’m “doing the right thing for the environment” by cycling in, yet I have to inhale more carbon monoxide than you can shake a stick at (not that I’ve ever actually tried to shake a stick at carbon monoxide. I’m not sure how you’d do that.). Tell me that’s not a health risk. So when is the ban on cars coming in to force?
The simple fact is that people have a choice. You can choose where you work, you can choose where you drink. If you don’t like smoke, smokers and smoking, then don’t go to a pub. Out of all my friends, I’m the only one who smokes. And do we all sit in the pub enjoying a few beers? Of course we do. Do we like the slightly hazy, pretty rotten, stale and smelly atmosphere? YES.
The government is always on about trying to preserve the British way of life, to be proud of our heritage and maintain the image of the sovereignty and all that bollocks. If this is honestly true, then they’ve totally forgotten how integral the pub is in our society. (If you’re not sure, then watch that episode of Men Behaving Badly when The Crown gets redecorated).
Banning smoking will not get a lot of people to quit. In fact, I suspect it will make things worse. After the new 24 hour drinking licenses were introduced, initial stats showed a decrease in alcohol related crime. Hurrah! This was obviously going to happen. Why? Because when people get kicked out of pubs at 11pm having guzzled down 6 pints of snakey-b in three hours, it’s going to kick off. Now, people can leave the pub when they want – problem solved. So what have they done with the smoking ban? Forced everyone to go outside everytime they want a ciggie. More people, pissed up, out on the street. Gee whizz, I wonder what’s going to happen.
The thing the law is simply about is the freedom of choice – smokers often argue anybody can leave where they want to smoke, but with that argumentation you could damage cars of others, and saying then, they should have parked their car somewhere else… With that argument you also could say that shooting at others should be legal, because no one need to go on the streets, and snipering others is a personal decision…
With the ban everybody has the choice – no addicted pub-owner can decide about live and health of his staff, and no smokers can non-smokers force anymore to stay at home.
Years ago, Airplane-staff was told that they have choosen to work in airplanes, so they have to breathe toxic smoke, journalists was told that smoking in offices is needed to write, and bar-workers was told that they all should quit (!) their jobs if they don’t want to work in unnecessary polluted workplaces.
But however, MPs and public is right – now everybody has the choice, before the ban comes in only smokers had the choice.
Martin, thanks for your comment, but I’m afraid you’re talking bollocks. Smoking is not a criminal offence, so your “pro-choice” logic about being allowed to shoot people is flawed.
And at no point did smokers “force” non-smokers to stay at home. The implication in your comment that the ban is now fairer to everybody is equally flawed, as smokers, to use your word, will now be “forced” to go outside.
A guy got a part-time job in my local pub. He was there less than a week because at the end of the week, one of his lungs collapsed. A nasty situation, certainly, but the guy had a history of heart/lung problems. If you’re anti-smoking then don’t work in a place where there’s going to be smoke. If you’re anti-Airplane fuel, don’t work in an airport. There’s the choice. This ban is the same as me saying to my boss “Boss, I know I’m employed as a computer programmer, but, I’m allergic to computer keyboards, please do something about it”.
It’s a bit like the hunting ban. A ruling was passed by a bunch of ill-advised people (not just politicians, but the society that lobbied the government to do something about it) who felt hunting was evil for whatever deeprooted emotion, when the majority of these people have no idea about hunting. The hipocrisy of it is that essentially it boils down to this: a group of people (the smokers) are being forced to make sacrifices to another group of people (the non-smokers) happy.
You can argue choice, and freedom and everything else, because in this case, for every possible argument, there is a reciprocal which is true. The fact is is that’s a ban that I simply don’t agree with, not because I’m a smoker, but because I feel it’s a violation of an individuals liberties.
Martin – I’ve got to agree with Matt. You’re talking bollocks.
If it’s all pro-choice, what about the choice of the smoker? Oh, we don’t have any rights. Why not?
I agree with the idea of the ban, but the idea only. Why should I have to go outside at the pub when I’m enjoying a beer? Am I second class citizen all of a sudden?
Restaurants, yes. Even I, as a smoker, don’t like sitting in a cloud of stale smoke when I’m eating.
I don’t smoke indoors at home – that’s my choice.
The government has taken that freedom of choice away from me with the total ban.
And I really don’t understand your statement about shooting others. That’s so extreme as to be unbelievable. If you shoot someone, they don’t have a choice whether to get hit or die or not. If someone doesn’t like me smoking, they have two choices. Stay or leave.
Or am I just talking bollocks too?
I think, at the end of the day, Cornell, everyone’s talking bollocks… chin up :p
Yeah, well, we know where to point the finger eh!
Come here Mr Blair and let me slap you around a bit…